tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post2489674322526456303..comments2023-03-26T02:23:43.274-05:00Comments on Zipse at the Track: ZATT’s Top 10 All-Time GreatsBrian Zipsehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-32997116916635826222012-06-10T06:07:57.261-05:002012-06-10T06:07:57.261-05:00ranking from such different periods of time is foo...ranking from such different periods of time is foolish.... no ranking on mine...just the top 3 in no order Man-O-War, Native Dancer and SecretariatFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16477927498489034509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-3076429310013223632011-05-26T20:25:45.709-05:002011-05-26T20:25:45.709-05:00i like Damascus/ Sea Bird 11/ desert gold /nearco/...i like Damascus/ Sea Bird 11/ desert gold /nearco/ dahlia/personal ensign/lammtara/invasort m opera o/allez france/eight belles/genuine risk/ruffian/spectacular bid/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-45590425766070674912010-12-26T16:20:34.935-06:002010-12-26T16:20:34.935-06:00I'm certainly not an expert on thoroughbred ho...I'm certainly not an expert on thoroughbred horses, but recently did a lot of research because my friends that claim to be experts say that Secretariat was the greatest and I did not agree. I favored Spectacular Bid or Citation due to their records. I discovered how much I did not know. I agree with your top ten picks and the order you rank them excpet I would move Seattle Slew up to Number #6. Man O'War is the greatest of all.......the one race he lost the jockey for Upset said that he had boxed him in which was legal then but not now. Man O'War's times were not as good as Secretariat's but neither were the conditions of the track.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-38707066059401271142010-10-07T11:46:44.683-05:002010-10-07T11:46:44.683-05:00With all due respect, I think Ruffian belongs on t...With all due respect, I think Ruffian belongs on this list for no other reason than she was never headed in any race she ever ran. Her potential may never have been known save for the infamous match race on July 6, 1975 with Foolish Pleasure whom she bested for 6 furlongs at the amazing pace of 1:08 3/5 into the 1 1/4 mile race. Her potential ultimately came down to one of physical limitations - she simply wanted to run faster than her body allowed - never letting another pass her by.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-85609923658426278982009-12-10T20:13:25.920-06:002009-12-10T20:13:25.920-06:00Michael,
I had a "bakers dozen" on my m...Michael,<br /><br />I had a "bakers dozen" on my mind, LOL, that should read 10 of 11...!EricKalethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04255662260777275883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-56510833269622515272009-12-10T09:23:50.909-06:002009-12-10T09:23:50.909-06:00This was my list, my evaluation of the greatest ho...This was my list, my evaluation of the greatest horses ever to run on American soil. What Secretariat's great biographer, Bill Nack, thinks on the subject, had nothing to do with my choices.Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-63837359036443385952009-12-10T09:18:55.498-06:002009-12-10T09:18:55.498-06:00Bill Nack is not the person who placed Secretariat...Bill Nack is not the person who placed Secretariat 14th. He said if he had known at the time that someone did that, he would have placed MOW 14th to offset it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-1304197387924054642009-12-10T08:44:17.215-06:002009-12-10T08:44:17.215-06:00Man o War deserves to be number one. If there ever...Man o War deserves to be number one. If there ever was a perfect horse made he was it. There was no telling what he coud've been if they brought him back one more year. In this case they had good reason not to since he had twice injured a tendon in his front leg and would be given astronomical weights as a handicap horse, seeing as he carried weights up to 138lbs when only three. He deserves to be number one.NetworkEmpowermenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09053022764177401200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-60418445007455011972009-12-10T08:34:23.448-06:002009-12-10T08:34:23.448-06:00I am so tired of Man O War being on everyones favo...I am so tired of Man O War being on everyones favorite list. The only reason Secretariat is not number one is because Bill Nack placed him 14. It skewed the results...As far as my favorite horses....I could go on and on..Buckpasser....the most magnificent horse ever..Damascus..who beat Dr. Fager...Alysheba...John Henry..the warrior...who ran and ran. Alydar, who met the worst fate of all...Susan Whitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-38653685273516206222009-12-09T15:14:48.383-06:002009-12-09T15:14:48.383-06:00:) Thanks, Brian! Too bad there wasn't a priz...:) Thanks, Brian! Too bad there wasn't a prize involved. lol<br /><br />D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-54053293294605225342009-12-09T15:11:07.226-06:002009-12-09T15:11:07.226-06:00Diane!!! You just nailed #11 & #12 on my list...Diane!!! You just nailed #11 & #12 on my list. Impressive, you deserve a prize!Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-30255998345051338762009-12-09T15:09:17.298-06:002009-12-09T15:09:17.298-06:00From Diane...
Round Table??From Diane...<br /><br />Round Table??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-16876041517078489322009-12-09T14:54:50.747-06:002009-12-09T14:54:50.747-06:00It would have been enough Diane, if my list had ex...It would have been enough Diane, if my list had extended to 11, Affirmed came that close. He was a marvelous race horse.<br /><br />No one has mentioned #12 on my list yet...here's a hint, he compiled an impressive number of races run and wins.Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-68822912148724806362009-12-09T14:47:32.214-06:002009-12-09T14:47:32.214-06:00Diane said...
Tell me this is not good enough...
...Diane said...<br /><br />Tell me this is not good enough...<br /><br />Affirmed:<br /><br />At 2: Won Youthful Stakes, Hollywood Juvenile Championship, Sanford Stakes, Hopeful Stakes, Futurity Stakes, Laurel Futurity... See More<br /><br />At 3: Won Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes, Belmont Stakes, San Felipe Stakes, Santa Anita Derby, Hollywood Derby, Jim Dandy Stakes<br /><br />At 4: Won Strub Stakes, Santa Anita Handicap, Californian Stakes, Hollywood Gold Cup, Woodward Stakes, Jockey Club Gold Cup<br /><br />U.S. Triple Crown Champion (1978)<br />American Champion 2-Year-Old Colt (1977)<br />American Champion 3-Year-Old Male Horse (1978)<br />American Horse of the Year (1978, 1979)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-55757563076336503922009-12-09T14:31:39.492-06:002009-12-09T14:31:39.492-06:00Ciarán, I have great respect for racing's fair...Ciarán, I have great respect for racing's fairer sex, and I might have some fillies or mares closer to this list than many, but in the end, I agree, I just could not replace any horse on this list with Zenyatta, Rachel or Ruffian.Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-47377880325822146852009-12-09T14:28:46.776-06:002009-12-09T14:28:46.776-06:00Eric, with your Dare and Go inclusion, we would th...Eric, with your Dare and Go inclusion, we would then also have to include Upset and Onion. And who were the 12th and 13th Triple Crown winners? <br /><br />I do agree this could be debated until the end of time.<br /><br />Still a great piece written by Brian and the passion shown by everyone means there is a place for racing in our society.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12911092966796427090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-55308667779439673822009-12-09T14:22:14.364-06:002009-12-09T14:22:14.364-06:00i shud amend this. Rip ran his race. Ran too hard ...i shud amend this. Rip ran his race. Ran too hard in the early stages and is only a miler so couldnt see it through. Also there were some quality dirt horses in the field , however, running on pro-ride.Ciaránhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13874396713831412722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-27036982681459426252009-12-09T14:15:48.921-06:002009-12-09T14:15:48.921-06:00i was jus gonna leave a really kiss-ass comment, t...i was jus gonna leave a really kiss-ass comment, thought better of it when i read it back! good piece Brian! jus read the facebook comments and who did Zenyatta really beat in this years classic- her finest hour... Twice Over and Gio Ponti and a lot of horses who didnt run their race..Einstein, Rip... Twice Over was beaten 17 lengths by Sea the Stars this season, and he was beaten an easy 6 lengths by New Approach last season. The Observatory colt clearly improved for a few confidence boosters between then and the classic but I think it can be conceded that it wasn't a vintage renewal and Zenyatta should not ever get near a top ten of all time list. <br />Great filly tho :)Ciaránhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13874396713831412722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-87924591133701770022009-12-09T14:08:35.703-06:002009-12-09T14:08:35.703-06:00Sorry Marti, While I consider Spectacular Bid the...Sorry Marti, While I consider Spectacular Bid the greatest of my personal favorites, I do not believe that he would have won the race between him, at his best, against Secretariat, at his best.Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-65427015300804110222009-12-09T13:54:04.292-06:002009-12-09T13:54:04.292-06:00To continue to use MOW, when there's no one ar...To continue to use MOW, when there's no one around who was alive to even see him, well...LOL, when does he lop off ANY list anymore? JMO, bu his competition is easily researched, for comparison. Secretariat seems like a "gimme" too (sorry)...31 lengths seems to totally dismiss the fact that he never went on after 3. I personally place him on a "we'll never REALLY know"...absolutely no different than any other sensational 3yo that's come along before or after him. We can speculate based on what they did do, but can we REALLY rank abbreviated seasons against horses who ran at least 3 FULL years? Spectacular Bid in the 4th spot is also (sorry Brian) absurd. The Triple Crown, or it's races, are NOT the be all/end all. He lost the TC....who hasn't?? If you peruse his record carefully, the records, the tracks, the competition, this horse was all but untouchable...and he remains MY personal #1 slot horse, and I can't fathom any other coming along that will come close to what he was. <br />Cigar hangs in the balance here for me, but not sure I'd have him in my own top 10, either. Affirmed should have made this list. NOT because he's a TC winner, but the over-all career.<br /><br />That said, I think the TC winners are too prevalant here (I'd not have included Count Fleet), and a testimony to the fact we put entirey too much emphasis on those three races...at the expen se of careers.<br /><br />Much like the Top 100, that some people take as gospel, ranking TBs is always a matter of someone's opinion, and not factual, per se...and none of your 10 here are left field choices Brian, by any means... regardless of order. <br /><br />We may not all agree, but all of these horses would likely make virtually anyone's Top 25 or 30...the rest is up for debate ;-)Martinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-73502804354639920292009-12-09T13:37:09.976-06:002009-12-09T13:37:09.976-06:00It seems like Cigar is the hottest topic so far......It seems like Cigar is the hottest topic so far...that really surprises me. I was expecting to see Affirmed and Seabiscuit fans tear me apart!Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-68465642737249497392009-12-09T13:24:37.211-06:002009-12-09T13:24:37.211-06:00If Cigar is on the list then would need to include...If Cigar is on the list then would need to include Dare and Go who upset Cigar. Cigar was no doubt a top 50 horse but not a top 10. Logically the Top 10 could include 10 of 13 triple crown winners...There are so many ways to drill down a top 10 list, of course Man O' War and Secretariat are must haves on any Top 10. The remaining 8 spots...easily argued and debated until the end of time.EricKalethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04255662260777275883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-7523283943758513312009-12-09T13:07:02.862-06:002009-12-09T13:07:02.862-06:00very interesting perspective,for me this is an edu...very interesting perspective,for me this is an education as i only had the pleasure of witnessing a couple 2 or 3 of these magnificent atheletes perform live and in living colour.However as time goes on i amm sure your perspective will change because i am apt to believe that generationally we only get better,meaning horses also....accomplishment,performance,times..i.e the stopwatch reflect my source of thought also the mere fact that we have not had a triple crown winner in umpteen years shows the depth and parity of the breed over the last 30 odd some years all in all what i am saying is man o war ,slew, bid ,secretariat maybe a couple 2 or 3 more are automatic choices the rest are preferences from sentimental second hand tales and stories and are interchangeable dependent on "perspective" and who is talking....therefore my list would have to include the infamous CIGAR and of course the undefeated queen ZENYATTA..maybe #s..9 and 10 respectively but they would be on my list as their is no time better than now and the horses of now are better overall....great article zipster..the pleasure is mine...the opion is also mine...keep me informed...nuff luv!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-88029077476060272452009-12-09T12:37:59.632-06:002009-12-09T12:37:59.632-06:00Fantastic list Brian. It seems like almost every h...Fantastic list Brian. It seems like almost every horse I listed on FB last night you have on the list. Man o War is number one, no doubt in my mind. He was big, beautiful, and boy was he fast. Only twice he was ever whipped, the first in his only loss and the next against John P. Grier, hope I spelled his name right. Other than that her broke records under a choke hold under wieghts horses his age and even older wouldn't dream of carrying. If not for one of the worst trips in probably the history of racing he would have been 21 for 21.NetworkEmpowermenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09053022764177401200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2000505714543202206.post-17813592320651462712009-12-09T12:18:04.258-06:002009-12-09T12:18:04.258-06:00Michael, good question. There were a few turf cha...Michael, good question. There were a few turf champions on the list and several that ran on turf, but you are right they are all primarily known for their exploits on dirt. I believe that the greatest turf horses in history are not Americans. John Henry had a remarkable career, but not better than anyone on this list in my estimation.Brian Zipsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592017304873334271noreply@blogger.com